Mastering Blended Families: Insights from Gil & Brenda Stuart

Gil Stuart:
Parenting, even in a nuclear family, it’s like, who am I? Am I safe? Where do I stand? Do I belong? I mean, all those basics. And those things were totally disrupted when the family systems blew up. And now we’re trying to put that back together again.

Laura Jenkins:
In The Blend is a podcast series that helps parents and step-parents navigate life in a blended family. Join me as I speak with experts and guests to get practical advice on how to create a more harmonious blended family life. Having grown up in a blended family and now a decade into raising one of my own, I bring a personal perspective to these conversations and we dive deep into the unique dynamics, logistics and challenges of raising a blended family. From new partners to juggling mixed finances, we will help guide you through it. Welcome back to In The Blend. I am delighted to have you join us for today’s episode featuring Gil and Brenda Stewart, husband and wife duo and renowned experts in the field of blended families. Gil and Brenda have been instrumental in helping countless families navigate the complexities of blending households. With counseling and coaching credentials, they bring a wealth of experience to our conversation together with lived blended family experience. Before we do dive in, I want to remind our listeners about the monthly newsletter. If you haven’t already subscribed, now is the perfect time. Our newsletter is packed with exclusive content, bonus tips, and updates about upcoming episodes and courses. Simply visit our website and sign up to stay connected with all things in the blend. Now, without further ado, let’s welcome Gil and Brenda to the show. Welcome, Gil and Brenda. So lovely to have you on the show today. Thanks for having us. Now, you were both introduced to me by Ron Deal, who has been on this podcast a couple of times now, and you’re a husband and wife duo, and you’re also a counselor and a coach duo. who do a lot of work in the blended family space. So no doubt a pretty impactful combination there. And I was very, very excited to speak with you both. You’re also coming to Australia in a few months time as well. So it seemed timely that we have have a chat just ahead of that visit. So to start us off, can you share how you first became involved in counseling and in coaching, and particularly in the context of blended families?

Gil Stuart:
Ah, yes. Our introduction to the blended family is much like anyone else’s through divorce or death. And so the doorway in was due to our pain and our loss. We started working with other couples. I started writing all kinds of things down in our early phases of our remarriage. We’ve been remarried now 21 years. I had four. I had three.

Brenda Stuart:
We have grandkids now, so it’s like, how many do we have?

Gil Stuart:
Right. And so as we learned early in our journey, Laura, there were things that like we needed resources and we couldn’t find very many. And so we started to kind of talk about this with other blended family couples and they resonated with what they said and went, oh, that’s what that is. And it created an affinity with these other couples and it helped reduce confusion and even sometimes conflict because issues were from our past, not so much between the two of us. And then actually a lot of the other issues had to do with the children, which we lovingly refer to as those people, you know, those people, what are they doing? One of those, you know, you get it. What would you add, Brenda?

Brenda Stuart:
Oh, gosh. Yeah, I think working with other couples and just sharing our experiences and like what’s working for us, it turned into a seminar that we did and then a book and then we had a workbook and now we have a small group guide, DVD. Do we still do DVD? No, no, no. Download. Download. We have a podcast, YouTube channel, and just about, I think our recent project a couple years ago is Gil did an eight-part video series just for stepdads.

Gil Stuart:
Yeah, which is called Unsung Heroes. It’s called Unsung Heroes, Encouragement for Dads in Stepfamilies. There’s not a lot of resources out there for dads, but it was fun. It was during COVID, so we went out on location to shoot these videos. They’re no longer than maybe 15-20 minutes.

Brenda Stuart:
Yeah, because men have short time, you know, very short, you know, Very tight, you know, very, very, not very long, you know, attention span.

Yeah. I can’t even say it. It was great. Cause you know, he talks about, yeah, it was doing things that guys like to do. So he’s at the beach was fishing and shooting guns and, um, and it, it’s been quite a hit and that we’ve even encouraged, uh, step moms. to look, to watch it because the way Gil speaks to the guys, it’s like the ladies can go, Oh, that’s how you’ve been feeling now. I understand it there. So that’s been a fun.

Gil Stuart:
So cut me some slack.

Laura Jenkins:
Yeah. I love that. I love that.

Gil Stuart:
So that kind of gives you a little bit, but as counselor coach, I mean, I was 30 years actually in the insurance business as an agent and a broker. And, uh, just because of our story and what we were going through. I actually went back to grad school to get my master’s degree in counseling when I was in my 50s. And so I’m still counseling these many years later, but that was because of out of our passion and just the need for something because it is a little bit of a different animal, so to say. Marriage is marriage, remarriage, it’s got some different wrinkles.

Laura Jenkins:
Absolutely. Oh, well, I love that you’ve done that and you’re putting all of that amazing content out into the world in its different forms. So through the work that you’ve done, what are some common challenges that you see couples facing in blended families and how do you approach addressing some of these challenges as well through the work you do?

Gil Stuart:
You want to go first?

Brenda Stuart:
There’s so many, I don’t know where to start.

Gil Stuart:
Okay, you start. Some of the big stuff, especially because our motto around our ministry and our speaking and our writing is this motto, if you ain’t got the marriage, you ain’t got nothing because it is the source. It is the main bond for the whole system.

Brenda Stuart:
The marriage, a strong marriage.

Gil Stuart:
Yeah, the whole strong, because the blended family, You got these too many family systems, sometimes no system at all. You come in as a single person. And what is this thing? And so in many cases, we would talk about issues that were going on with us that seemed to be kind of creeping in from the past and impacting the present. So we actually gave names to those things, like attachment wounds. We called those bare wires, you know, and sneaker waves, which were, you know, situational past things that took place, but now it’s impacting us. Why is this going on? And, you know, just different things with regards to getting down into foxholes with one another, temporary things. So we use a lot of illustrations and props because you might forget the concept, but you won’t forget what you saw. So a lot of times what we’re talking to are basic conflicts that happen that are unique to a remarriage that maybe a first time marriage won’t experience.

Brenda Stuart:
Yeah, I mean, because there’s really 72 differences between a first marriage and a remarriage. uh as ron deal says i think there’s 62 different types of step families so if there’s i think early on the issues between us weren’t really about us they were about the kids so that’s why we realized that we needed to get on the same page of supporting each other in that because if gill’s kids were making me mad or upset then i’d take it out on him without realizing it and vice versa right yeah So that kind of helped force us to get this stronger so that we could support each other. Because otherwise, those kids, if they smell weakness, they’re going for it. They’re like piranhas. They’re trying to break you up. Yeah.

Gil Stuart:
Because most remarriages do break up because of kid issues, because it’s not a strong marriage. And if we’re in unity and have an understanding, then we can get ahead of it. But there’s some pretty amazing and difficult circumstances that remarried couples have to navigate. And not only in our own past, but the fact of your kids, my kids, it creates a lot of complexities.

Laura Jenkins:
Definitely. We’ve spoken about the importance of the couple relationship a few times on this podcast as well, and I 100% agree with you. If you haven’t got the strength in that couple relationship, then everything falls apart, doesn’t it? One of the aspects that I think, and I was just saying this to you before we hit record, that I think is great about you being a husband and wife duo helping others is that you bring that male and female perspective to the table. So, I love to hear, Gil, that you’ve just gone and shot the Step Dads series. I think that’s fantastic. Could you highlight some of those key differences that you’ve noticed in how men and women typically approach issues within blended families?

Gil Stuart:
Sure. Yeah, the video series that I did for the guys, I call Unsung Heroes, Encouragement for Dads in a Step Family. And so one of them that comes to my mind, there were eight episodes, but one of them comes to my mind that I referred to as reverse betrayal. And reverse betrayal is really weird because moms are kind of really geared for nurturing and pulling things together, you know, stereotypically. But for guys, it’s kind of like, because the visitation, there’s a lot of things where guys kind of sometimes may get the short end of the stick on the visitation. Sometimes, sometimes not. But one of the things that I really struggled with is that I began to bond with my step sons. And I felt like I was betraying my own children. And so I felt like I was betraying them, although I was bonding with your children, which was the very thing she wants me to do. But internally, I felt like I was betraying my own children. So for me as a dad, I’m trying to love my wife and kind of get to know who these stepkids are, but at the same time being torn apart with I miss my children. I don’t want to do this, which created an internal just conflict. And I had to kind of understand how to explain that to Brenda. It really took a lot of time because she just couldn’t understand it. It’s like, well, he’s getting close to my kids, but she didn’t realize that I felt like I was losing my home.

Laura Jenkins:
That’s so interesting. I’m sure there’s lots of people who wrestle with that as well. And I know that the kids wrestle with that through their own lens as well. And all of those loyalty conflicts that come up for them when a step-parent enters their world. That’s interesting. Yeah.

Gil Stuart:
One of the other concepts real quick too, Laura, was what I referred to as between a rock and a hard place. And a rock and a hard place we actually shot in this really beautiful place of the Oregon coast, which has this really narrow channel that goes in and out of this harbor. And it was very nostalgic for me because my grandfather was a deep sea fisherman out of this harbor. But if you didn’t know how to get in and out of that channel, you were going to either go into a cliff with lots of jagged rocks or into a solid cliff of concrete about 20 feet thick. And because of the ocean coming and going. And so thus, I felt like a rock. I was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Well, what’s the rock in the hard place? The rock in the hard place is my dear wife or my children. And so the question was, who am I going to be aligned with? It’s all about alliance. Who am I going to be loyal to? And so sometimes guys get stuck in this rock in a hard place and then their wife Gosh, if we don’t be loyal to them, then she gets on our case. But if I’m not loyal to my children, they turn me off. So we really had to learn how to navigate, how to prioritize and in a way, let people know where they were at. So I didn’t get crashed. That was another one. So there’s some information that we talked about in a rock and a hard place.

Laura Jenkins:
That’s a good analogy there. So what strategies can people do to ensure that they don’t crash, so to speak? What can people do? What are some practical steps that people can take if they’re wrestling with some of those conflicts and issues?

Brenda Stuart:
Boy, you know, it really comes back to I think something we did on our second date and that’s basically if we can’t have trust and honesty, it was nice knowing you have a good life. And that when we, cause it’s like, because of our past and our previous spouses leaving us, we didn’t, we didn’t want to get into that routine again of not being honest with each other. Right. So I think that is really important to lay that foundation of trust and honesty. And when I say that, that takes risk. especially if that was stomped on or obliterated in your previous relationships, right? So we talk a lot with couples, even just first time married couples, how important it is to be To be safe with each other to be vulnerable enough to share what’s really going on And there’s kind of two parts to that the person like let’s say I need to share something with gill and I need to you know Say, okay. This is what’s really going on. Is he going to receive what i’m going to say? with humility Empathy curiosity or is he just going to tell me what to do and shut me down? Because if he does that i’m not going to feel safe, right? Am I going to feel safe enough to really say, you know, this is what’s really going on. This is, I just need you to listen right now, or I need you to help me fix this. When your kids do that, and the problem is never the problem. Like if you’re throwing your socks on the floor, it’s not about the socks, right? It’s about how that’s making me feel. When your socks are on the floor, I feel disrespected. Don’t shake your head. I feel disrespected. I feel like overlooked. Okay, feeling disrespected has nothing to do with the sucks, right? So the idea is that either one of us is vulnerable enough to share, okay, this is how this is hitting me. It’s not right or wrong, but I want you to know where I’m at so we can talk about it.

Gil Stuart:
Especially if it’s about those people, like your children, my children, then the mama bear or the papa bear show up and then we have blended family disaster land. So that trust and honesty to be able to really navigate that is so important in a remarried situation. And because of, you know, if someone’s life had gone through something to where, like Brenda said, that was destroyed, it’s more difficult. It needs to be repaired and established very early on. So recently we were working with a couple who are getting ready to remarry. And one of the things that we really look for is what’s the health of that trust and honesty? Have they dealt with their stuff? Have they forgiven even themselves? And in a lot of ways, we will try our best to be frank and fair and gentle, but also very firm where we’ll kind of go, you know, maybe you guys need to tap the brake and slow down a little bit. Or if they’ve done a really good amount of internal work and are engaged and self-aware, then yeah, go ahead and step on the gas a little bit to move the relationship along. Because in so many ways, you know, let’s, let’s be honest, if we haven’t dealt with that past baggage, we’re going to be bringing it into this new marriage, which is not going to be good for us or the kids. And so that trust and honesty is super important.

Laura Jenkins:
That makes total sense. And I think we talk a lot on the podcast before about using the “I messages” as a couple and really being careful to respond rather than react if something’s pressing your buttons and those sorts of things. So, yeah, I love how you’re emphasising the importance of that there.

Something else I’m curious to ask you about is differences in parenting styles, and I’m sure this has come into your office before, whether it’s a first-time family or a second-time-round family. How do you navigate when the husband and wife have quite a different approach to parenting, and how can you go about communicating those differences effectively?

Brenda Stuart:
Well, we need to find out. We get on a plane and fly away.

Gil Stuart:
Let’s deal with this later. But seriously, it’s kind of like, I didn’t know your kids before when they were going through that. That’s driving me crazy. Could you tell me what’s going on?

Brenda Stuart:
Yeah. You know, because I don’t have history.

Gil Stuart:
I’m drawing conclusions, uh, you know, or basically maybe there’s that place of, I’m a dad. I know how to deal with a kid. Uh, but I don’t have relationship yet with that child. So I might rush in and not create that, that emotional safety zone. and not honor the relationship that you have with them. And so I start parenting in a way that does not fit with the way you’ve parented. And now I’ve not only offended you, but I’ve really gotten off to a wrong foot with the kid.

Brenda Stuart:
Yeah. And that is why early on, you need to go in as if you’re the babysitter. You cannot just go in and demand respect. And I’m sure, yeah, I’m sure other guests have shared that too. That’s so important. And that’s so counterintuitive because it’s like, we’ve both been parents before. We know how to deal with kids, but when it’s not your bio kid, you have to really take a huge step back. And I used to love what you used to say is he developed a, uh, what? He bit his lip all the time.

Gil Stuart:
A callus on my lip. Biting my lip. So I was like… Don’t say it.

Brenda Stuart:
But also, you know, Laura, it’s funny because the more we’re doing like deeper counseling with people, a lot of times the step parent will react to the step kid out of a pain in their life. And I guess this would happen in first time, but even more so in a step family. If something happened as a kid in your life with discipline or something, and you’re going to overcompensate for that on your step kid, that’s not going to go well. So we have found that in several cases that we’ve had to take that individual to say, let’s take a step back and look what’s in your development. And is there anything in there that you need to kind of face off with or come to terms with or let go of? because you’re hurting people hurt people. So if you have a deep hurt and it spills out, you don’t want those kids to get the brunt of it.

Gil Stuart:
Yeah. I think also because the way that you interacted with your, your kids and how I interacted with my kids, my kids were going, can she do that? Or can they do that? And so it was a different style and we had to. Not minimise what they were seeing, but normalize, Hey, that’s how their system worked before. And we learned from each other, but it was like, wow, they really talked that way to their mom. We’d never do that before. You know?

Brenda Stuart:
Because I’m different than their mum, right? I’m just a different person.

Gil Stuart:
Yeah, that’s right. So that was an interesting thing for my kids to begin to understand. And I think also just creating that safe place with, it was like one particular Saturday morning early on where I’m staring down these four teenagers and basically just kind of stating the obvious with, you know, when you’re here, because kids coming, going back and forth between the different houses, when you’re here, Brenda is my wife. She’s not your mother, but she is in essence, the, so to say, the queen at this house. And, and, you know, when, I’m there with my stepsons. No, I’m not your dad, but I’m going to try my best to earn your respect and work through with your mom. So in a lot of ways, that really was the setting and stating some obvious things so that everybody knew where they stood. Because in so many ways with parenting, even in a nuclear family, it’s like, who am I? Am I safe? Where do I stand? Do I belong? I mean, all those basics. And those things were totally disrupted when the family systems blew up. And now we’re trying to put that back together again.

Laura Jenkins:
Yeah, that makes sense. It was just making me think of Ron Deal’s no threat message that he talks about in making the kids feel safe in that demonstrating to them that step mum isn’t a threat. She might be the queen of the household, but she’s not a threat to you in terms of the relationship that you have with your mum already. So yeah, I like that.

Brenda Stuart:
And I think it’s so important to give the kids a place to have a voice because if you think about it, we fell in love again. So because we’re in love and everything’s going to be fine, everybody else will just fall in, right? And that usually does not happen or it’ll be fine until this goes on and then everything falls apart. But I love what somebody said once is the kids were voluntold they’re going to have a new family. A lot of times we don’t really invite them in and ask them. Now, not all the time, but most of the time. So, to be able to give the kids a voice that, you know, we used to call it floor time. We used to have the kids in one at a time. We’d sit on the floor cross-legged, so we’re all at the same level and just say, how’s it going? And then some, usually the adults would set the level of vulnerability. Hey, I’ve never done a step family thing before. I’m struggling. I, I need you to help me out with this. How can I love you better? I mean, just get the conversation going. But the most important thing we found out is make sure you take the first kid in to this floor time, that’s the informant. Because then they will tell you what’s going on in the rest of the family. Because we did it backwards and we got the kid in there that was like a clam and she would not open up and say anything. That did not build our confidence very well. That’s a good example.

Gil Stuart:
Yeah, we were trying to create a safe place. Hey, whatever, stay here, stays here. But, you know, how can we love you better and make you feel safe and at home? But yeah, you’re right, Brenda. I mean, getting the informant of the children, because they do talk amongst themselves. They just don’t tell dad, don’t tell mom.

Laura Jenkins:
I love the phrase that they’ve been voluntold as well. I think that’s spot on. They have in a lot of ways and it’s about giving them that voice then so that they feel like they’re still part of that family unit and they’ve got a say as well.

Brenda Stuart:
And that voice, you don’t have to agree with that voice. You can totally disagree with what they’re saying. But the main thing is that you affirm what they’re saying and that you understand. Understanding doesn’t mean agreement. Yes. So I think our kids, all of our kids nowadays need that because they’re not being heard, especially by their parents. That’s a really good point.

Gil Stuart:
True validation. Yeah. We need that amongst ourselves as adults, but you know, as children, especially in a step family. We’re just kind of wandering around with the questions.

Laura Jenkins:
Now, let’s talk about your upcoming visit to Australia. So you’re coming out here for the Better Marriages Australia conference.

Gil Stuart:
There’s a couple of keynotes that we’re doing. One of them is, did you mean it that way or what did I hear you say about communication? And then another one later in the day that’s called, here we go again, which has to do with conflict. And then we’re going to do a couple of breakout sessions. And then the night before, I think we’re actually doing something on blended family, kind of like one-on-one and then some various things around Sydney, down to Kiama.

Brenda Stuart:
The 14th of September. And we’ll be doing the Blended Family 101 on that Friday night before at Moorling College.

Laura Jenkins:
Oh yes, out in Macquarie Park. Wonderful. If you can still get a ticket, we’ll make sure we’ve got links to that in the show notes as well. It sounds like a terrific event and some great content that you’ll be sharing there. You’ve done a lot of presentations in your time, so are there any other key themes that tend to come up in your presentations as it relates to blended families that we perhaps haven’t touched on yet in the conversation?

Brenda Stuart:
I think one thing that we share all the time is talking about the wall in your relationship. A lot of times a wall will come between you. So we want to reframe the wall and put that wall in front of you so it protects you. So what that wall does is that it’s representing what a great marriage is. Yes, yes, we’ve been doing fingers. This may anybody can use this. This means I have something to say. I’ll wait till you’re done. This means hold on just a second. I might have information that will change the course of the conversation. So it’s being a polite way of not interrupting. And we teach everybody this. So what finger were you giving me?

Gil Stuart:
If you see and if you see any other finger, don’t pay attention. That’s right. Just to be real. So the finger was up is because walls divide or they can unify. Right. And so what we’re trying to do is reframe that cliche, oh, there’s a wall between the two of us.

Brenda Stuart:
Yeah, thank you for clarifying. So that wall represents a great marriage. And what we have couples do is name the bricks in the wall that mean a great marriage to you. Because we don’t want a good marriage anymore. We thought what we had was good. We want a great marriage. So it’s beautiful because couples will come up with individual words themselves and make their own walls So there’s no two walls alike, right? So words would be like love respect

Gil Stuart:
Transparency.

Brenda Stuart:
Spirituality might be one of them. Laughter. Laughter. So these bricks are put together, but the most important part of the wall is what holds bricks together. So the concrete, the consistency of the concrete needs to be really important. If it’s too wet, it’s not going to hold the bricks together, right? If it’s too dry, it won’t hold the bricks together. So the idea is that consistency of the cement needs to be just right. Concrete represents safety. Safety in our relationship to hold the great words that we want to keep together. And safety, as I kind of alluded to before, is that I’m safe to share with you. You’re safe to share with me. Whatever it is we need to talk about, we’re not hiding anything. So what would you add to that?

Gil Stuart:
I wouldn’t add a thing. I really wouldn’t. I think you did a marvelous job with that because that is the place of us working on that wall. We’re always working It’s not one and done. And in a blended family situation, there are always phases. I mean, at every phase of our own lives, as we get older, as the children get older, it is a matter of staying flexible. And that flexibility with that safety piece, like you’re talking about, Brenda, is so important because that’s what holds all of the things that we value together, because that, in essence, gives the children a safe place to grow up and hopefully for us to grow up too.

Brenda Stuart:
But a good example is let’s say one of us is having trouble with one of our exes. it’d be very easy to say, well, it’s your ex, you deal with her, I’m out of here. With the wall, it’s like the ex or whatever the challenge is, is outside of the wall, we lock arms, it’s like, what are we going to do to help the situation? Not what are you gonna do?

Gil Stuart:
Yeah, getting behind our wall. So we find that that’s so helpful in so many situations. It’s a rallying point that a blended family and especially back to if you ain’t got the marriage, is a place we need to rally because the problem is often out there but we take it out on each other and therefore the reframe of the wall not being a divider but a unifier.

Laura Jenkins:
That’s such a nice visual thinking about that wall and represents tackling issues together as well rather than feeling like you’re a team rather than trying to do everything all on your own.

Brenda Stuart:
I mean, we hopefully like our spouses, right? Like you said, we’re on the same team. You’re not the enemy.

Laura Jenkins:
We need to work on this together differently. Everything’s a lot more fun as a team.

Brenda Stuart:
Yeah, exactly.

Laura Jenkins:
Well, we are just about at time here. Where can people go to connect with you both and get their hands on your resources, listen to your podcast, and find out all the different events where you’re going to be speaking?

Brenda Stuart:
Yeah, so if they just go to gillandbrenda.com. Yeah, all of our information is there, a podcast is there, and the link to Better Marriages Australia is there.

Gil Stuart:
The Unsung Heroes videos and the other videos that we’ve done. Lots of YouTube shorts that we’ve done as well, because our hope is really to encourage you know, remarried couples and while they’re in the blend, as you say.

Laura Jenkins:
I love it. Love it. Well, thank you so much. And we will absolutely link to all of that in the show notes. But just love the work that both of you are doing to support families and stepfamilies out there. So thank you once again.

Gil Stuart:
It’s such an honour. And we really hope to have a cup of coffee with you when we come to Sydney.

Laura Jenkins:
That would be fun. We have great coffee over here.

Gil Stuart:
I hear. We’ll take you up on that. Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Laura Jenkins:
Thanks for listening to the In The Blend podcast. The show notes for this episode are available at intheblend.com.au. And if you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe and please rate and review in your podcasting app. You can also follow me on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.